An Interview with Designer, Andrew Herzog
Andrew’s Work:
Personal Portfolio, Schoooool Portfolio
I interviewed Andrew Herzog, who is currently living in New York City, and is the Cofounder and Director for creative agency, Schoooool. He previously worked as a Designer for R/GA, Google Creative Labs, and Sagmeister & Walsh. He attended the Savannah College of Art and Design, where he earned a BFA and MFA for Graphic Design.
Charity Donation for this interview:
In honor of Andrew’s interview, we have decided to donate money to the Arts and Athletics Club! Check them out, to learn about their great cause!
Andrew, to put it simply, your impact within the design world has been phenomenal. You’ve worked with Top-level companies within the industry, from Google Creative Labs, Sagmeister & Walsh, R/GA, and you are now the Director of your own creative agency. What do you feel you bring to the table, that’s allowed you to attract so much top-level industry talent?
I really care about the work that I do. I’m really interested in the clients I work with, what they are trying to do. But, maybe more than that, outside of the work that I do within the agencies/studios/companies, I have a very active practice. It tends to take many forms.
Sometimes it’s art when I’m working with institutions in the art world, and sometimes, it’s just pure experimentation like coding a website that I had an idea for.
“I really care about the work that I do. I’m really interested in the clients I work with, what they are trying to do.”
Those outside projects have always been a part of my work. In job interviews, I can remember rarely showing the work I was doing for clients. In hindsight, I was showing the work that I really cared about (which, early on were projects that I manifested for myself) and so when I talked about it they could see it.
It sounds a little simplistic to just say I care about the work, but that’s a constant question I’m asking myself. Do I care about the work that I am doing? Ultimately that care can speak louder than any aesthetic decisions I can make.
After much success, you’ve decided to direct your own design business called, School! How has that journey been? What did you feel you needed to learn from working at other companies, before making this leap? And what are the benefits of being the leader of your own creative agency?
First, I have to tamp down the “much success bit,” it’s all relative, but I appreciate the sentiment. I feel super fortunate and privileged be able to have been on this journey. I learned a lot from the places that I worked at before co-founding my first studio, HAWRAF, with four partners I met working at the Google Creative Lab. I think process was the most important thing that I took from working at other places before starting my own studio.
I would imagine, like me, a lot of people feel like they’re pretty creative, but often times creativity without the structure to properly express your ideas is useless. I learned a lot about how to propose things in a way that would lead to their success and why process and presentation is so important in the creative process.
“I would imagine, like me, a lot of people feel like they’re pretty creative, but often times creativity without the structure to properly express your ideas is useless.”
Another important learning was that you want to make mistakes while someone else is responsible for your paycheck. Because you are paying yourself, the mistakes cost you money.
As far as being the leader of a company, again, it’s a privileged role, but it comes with a lot of responsibility. The good part is you have autonomy over the decision-making process. For the most part, you get to choose what you work on and who you work with. But you’re also responsible for keeping the ship afloat and making sure the people who depend on you get what they need.
Overall, I really like it. I wouldn’t trade it for any other job at the moment. It’s like being the captain of a spaceship with the opportunity to fly into unknown worlds.
I’d really like to ask about some of your past work experiences, because they’re experiences that most designers would love to know about! What was your experience like, working at Google Creative Labs? Any key takeaways from this experience that helped you grow as a designer?
Working at Google Creative Lab was something I wanted to do from the moment I learned it existed in college. And it was a fantastic experience for the most part. I was surrounded by a ton of super talented and smart people. But, like most things in life, you tend to make them out to be bigger and better than they really are. I got a ton of amazing opportunities while I was there. I was super fortunate in that regard and I met my partners for HAWRAF and School there. I also met a ton of other people I’m still close with to this day.
The thing I learned the most from in my time there was how to initiate projects that would ultimately serve Google.
I learned about that:
(1) you have to be ready to initiate those projects when the opportunity comes up. Like the saying goes, “Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.” If you want to initiate projects you have to have ideas and be ready to propose them and get other people on board. Which is no small task. The other learning is the reality that
(2) many things you work on will never see the light of day. While Google is a company that does a lot of things, there is still a stringent filter that dictates what can go out into the world with the Google logo on it.
“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.”
In that way I learned a lot about being ready to lead projects and the reality that regardless of how much you think they fit the Google persona they may not make their way through the bureaucratic filters of a large organization. I guess on a more positive note, you also learn how to get things to slalom their way through those they may not seemingly impassible barriers.
Another experience I’d like to ask about, would be your experience working at Sagmeister and Walsh. What was that like, and what did you feel like you learned from that experience?
“They’re both incredibly smart and talented people but ultimately I left realizing they’re just people making decisions and taking risks in the name of what they care about.”
To be honest, my time at the Sagmeister and Walsh studio was not incredibly long. I was there for a handful of months before ultimately turning down a full-time position to work at the Creative Lab. But the impact was pretty large. I got an unbridled look at how a small studio functions. In contrast to my time at R/GA, where there was a person for every job in the design process, designers there did everything from designing to coding to talking with clients.
But I also got to see Stefan and Jess at work. I got to see them as people rather than someone in a book or on a stage giving a lecture. That was pretty impactful. They’re both incredibly smart and talented people but ultimately I left realizing they’re just people making decisions and taking risks in the name of what they care about.
Along with your incredible work that you’ve done for your clients, you’re also a creative machine on your free time. You never stop cranking out new work, that’s not only creative, but interactive as well. Could you talk about a personal project that you’ve enjoyed working on, and how that’s helped you grow as a designer?
I suppose my work goes back and forth between art and design. It’s a delineation that I am really interested in. It really comes down to context. I don’t believe in the idea that design functions and art doesn’t. Everything functions or else it wouldn’t exist. Sayings like that are propagated by designers that want to give themselves authority over other creative pursuits. But that’s not what your question was. Was it?
In contrast to a lot of the design work that I’ve done utilizing technology, I like to work on projects in my personal practice that are void of technology. With those projects, I’m really interested in finding mediums that are ubiquitous and are super comprehensible to solicit interaction.
Lately, One of the projects that I’ve enjoyed working on is a book that I wrote about a public art installation produced at the National Museum of Art of Romania in 2018. The installation was a half-mile long-three-foot-wide painted line on the ground encircling the museum.
The book details pretty much everything that went into the project from the people, to the material tests, to the realization of the work on the day. I hadn’t really seen a book before that was that transparent and since this was my first public art project I wanted to document it in a way that could be useful to other people who might be interested in making public art.
Work experience aside, you have extensive design education under your belt. You went to SCAD for both an undergrad and graduate degree in design. It’s a hot topic about whether formal education is needed for a design career, but you have clearly benefited from this investment. What role has your extra design education played in your overall success?
I’m a big fan of education. So much so that I named the studio that I run School, ha ha. But education is expensive. I’m not a fan of that part. To be as transparent as possible, I transferred to SCAD from a smaller school in Pennsylvania close to where I grew up after my sophomore year.
“I feel like undergrad is where you learn how to do things and grad school is where you learn why you do things.”
I was a long-distance runner and little known fact, SCAD is one of the only art schools with a legit athletics program. So when I got there, I started running track and cross country for SCAD. When I finished my undergrad two years later, I still had two years of athletic eligibility left.
They offered me a scholarship to come back, pursue my masters, and keep running. That’s how I ended up going to graduate school. That being said, I learned a ton in grad school. I feel like undergrad is where you learn how to do things and grad school is where you learn why you do things. Or, at least, that’s the way it was for me.
“Again, I think it comes down to care. If you really care about something it shows in the work that you make regardless of where you went to school at.”
Ultimately, I believe knowledge is power. Whether you get it through the means of traditional education or through alternative means. You can become an expert in something without ever setting foot in a university. Again, I think it comes down to care. If you really care about something it shows in the work that you make regardless of where you went to school at.
Speaking of education, you’ve also worked as an Adjunct Professor at the School of Visual Arts. Being a former student yourself, within a design program, what’s the experience been like on the other side, as an educator to future designers?
I love teaching. Selfishly, it’s a great way for me to keep a finger on the pulse of design. And, oftentimes, it also allows me to find interns for the studio. The future of design is an interesting one. Considering that before long we’ll be introducing more and more algorithmic tools into our process to help us do things faster, the question becomes what does the designer do that algorithms cant.
“I try to stress the ability to communicate ideas and work above styles, tools, and things that are not own-able.”
That’s where care and ideation come into play. Having ideas isn’t replicable by algorithms, at least not yet. But, implementing the latest trends, that’s easy for a computer to do by itself if you feed it a steady diet of It Nice That. Because of this likely future, I try to stress the ability to communicate ideas and work above styles, tools, and things that are not own-able.
Every educator of design has their opinions about certain topics within the design industry and just the overall state of it, ha ha. Is there something that you feel design universities, or even designers within the industry can do better, to help support design students, and to make sure that they’re put in the best possible position to succeed, after they graduate?
“Students also need to learn that at a certain point in their education, they have to stop looking at the blogs and all of that stuff for visual inspiration. That just keeps them making work that lacks substance and ultimately…wait for it….care.”
I think it’s important to teach the things that happen around design that make it possible. Like I’ve said a few times, the process, the ability to communicate, deal with money, and proposals. Those are the things that most students find themselves having no idea how to do when they leave school and honestly that’s a huge part of being able to be an independent designer.
Students also need to learn that at a certain point in their education, they have to stop looking at the blogs and all of that stuff for visual inspiration. That just keeps them making work that lacks substance and ultimately…wait for it….care. There’s a time to be looking at that stuff and learning to imitate, but before you find yourself out in the world, you have to manifest a point of view. That’s what makes you valuable to studios/agencies/companies.
Lastly, do you have any advice for up and coming design students and creatives who are dreaming big right now?
You get the work you do. So, make a lot of work, and learn through making. No one in my experience is willing to give anyone the opportunity to do something they haven’t proven they can do. Don’t fear making things that are less than perfect. You have to make sh*t before you can grow flowers.
Thank you very much for sharing your great journey and insight with us, Andrew! Your work continues to be an incredible inspiration, and the intention and care that you have for mentoring young designers within design academia, is greatly appreciated by all! You’re incredibly talented, yet equally humble, with your heart in the right place. The world needs more designers like you, and we’ll continue to cheer you on your journey to learning and creating more great work, along with inspiring more people!
